Episode 016

Transcript for Podcast Lesson on Compassion with Andy Riemer

Jenny Woo: Welcome to 52 Essential Conversations to Inspire Children for Life. I'm Jenny Woo and today, we have Andy Riemer with us to talk about compassion. Andy holds a Master's Degree in Human Development and Psychology from the Harvard Graduate School of Education. He has done research in Asian-American masculinity development and worked for many different places. For example, the Classroom Champions, which brings social-emotional learning skills into the classroom through Olympic mentorship. Before starting work in the fields of child-development and mental wellness, guess what? He has also been a professional soccer player for the LA Galaxy. He is now the founder and CEO of SHLD, which stands for Self Healing and Loving Dialog, which leverages social media to make mental health resources more accessible to young people, especially those with marginalized identities. Welcome, Andy. 

Andy Riemer: Thanks so much, Jenny. 

Jenny Woo: Tell us, what does compassion mean to you? 

Andy Riemer: I really love the word compassion. 

Andy Riemer: I think of the roots of the word and how the roots of the word mean to suffer with. I think that really encapsulates how it is, even maybe a step beyond empathy. The empathy of being able to take a person's perspective and be in that person's shoes. Then compassion goes that step further and says, “How do we take action with that person?”, “How can we understand that suffering or pain or hardship and then take a step further and suffer and go alongside them?” 

Jenny Woo: I love what it stands for. So tell us, based on your research or experience, how do you inspire people to willingly go on this journey of suffering with others? 

Andy Riemer: Absolutely. That's the million-dollar question because it requires a certain amount of discomfort that is not something that people often seek out. It seems almost illogical and contradictory. But through learning in the discomfort, we grow as a person and we grow as a society and as a community and in our friendships and relationships. 

Andy Riemer: It's helping and supporting people that are wanting to take that step into the suffering, into that discomfort, and being that foundation for them and then allowing them the time and reflection to see how that discomfort ended up being a very positive thing. 

Jenny Woo: Tell me more about the reflection piece, whether it's you're in the midst of suffering with or as you mentioned at the end, reflecting back, what questions should they be asking or how do you get them to recognize that this is a good thing? 

Andy Riemer: Absolutely. Of the articles that I have read, it's interesting that when people practice compassion and mindfulness, they're using a very similar part of the brain. It's very interesting to notice that a big part of suffering, is also taking compassion to yourself and practicing self-care. 

Andy Riemer: But to come back around, when we encourage ourselves to lean into that discomfort, we have to be aware of what we are bringing into this conversation. However much we try, it's going to be impossible to truly feel what another person is feeling and being aware of our own story and our own bias that we bring into this suffering with an action that we want to take. I think it's important to remember to listen to the other person and to not make assumptions and be aware of our own biases that we bring in so that we can be the most helpful for the other person. 

Jenny Woo: Yeah, it reminds me of this mentality that we're in it together. That's actually something we talked about in terms of generosity which is really, we're a team. We're in this together. Let's solve the problems not just for the benefit of one, but for us as a team and we'll grow from that. How do you, in terms of compassion, sort of engage people and recognize that discomfort? And this team, working together, suffering together is sort of the new norm because, you know, a lot of the social norms and cultural norms are very individualistic, right? So how do you change that mindset? 

Andy Riemer: It's a really interesting question when we talk about generosity. 

Andy Riemer: In the betterment of the whole community, that is a potential that we're heading towards in regards to social media and just being constantly around a community, a much larger community than we could even ever imagine. We're no longer kind of secluded into the people that we meet face-to-face on a day-to-day basis. But instead, we're seeing how actions have this ripple-effect at a global, community-level also, just in our neighborhood and at an immediate community level. That's a real potential. The research is showing that there are both positives and negatives in regards to social media for sure. But, young kids often find social media to be a wholly positive thing. A large aspect of it is this sense of belongingness and community. Something else that it reminds me of is the word altruism, where it's the act of doing good. I think that compassion is the combination of altruism and generosity with empathy. Being able to both want to do good for the betterment of the whole, yourself, and the person across from you but also being able to take that person's point of view and being able to listen to them as well. 

Jenny Woo: Yeah. That actually ties in nicely to SHLD, what your mission is. Share with us what young people can do to take advantage of the resources that you provide. 

Andy Riemer: Absolutely. We're still building this out. 

Andy Riemer: But from the conversations that I've had with several experts around the country, as well as locally here at Harvard, especially with Dr. Emily Weinstein, I've learned how social media is. Even the media often portrays us as this negative thing. It's more of a seesaw. There’s Doctor Emily's most recent metaphor of that, “There are several things that can wave positively or negatively on a young person in regards to how they use social media.” The way that SHLD envisions being a part of the conversation that kids are having on these networks is by having kids wanting to have these conversations around mental health. Well, we see that with the extreme popularity of 13 Reasons Why or the popularity of celebrities that come out and speak about mental health, such as Logic's Grammy-nominated hit last year, or Dwayne The Rock Johnson coming out and speaking out about their own mental health struggles and successes. With more of these stories that are coming out, an aspect of the conversation that we want to add to is, OK, we're talking about mental health, but what are some concrete skills and conversations that you can have around mental health that will be a positive movement for you as an individual and your peers?

Jenny Woo: Very cool. What can parents do to align with that mission and to help their children build those types of positive skills? 

Andy Riemer: Absolutely. Being both an active listener as well as engaging with the media that their kids watch helps. There is a real positive to watching the same television shows, regardless of the quality of how you feel about it. Being able to watch the movies that they watch and even maybe follow the same people that they follow on social media so that you have this basis for conversations. This is the empathy part, being able to be in the student or the child's shoes, and trying to understand. The kids that are growing up now are social media natives. They're using social media in ways that even I, as a digital native, don't understand and don't necessarily align with. But if we're able to listen with them and have dialogs and discussions around this, that's a really good starting point of, OK. We hear this, which may be positive, maybe problematic, but this is a good place to start having these conversations from 

Jenny Woo: Yeah great. 

Jenny Woo: From a place of inquiry, I want to leave you with a parting question. I can't help but ask. How did you learn about compassion? What was your journey like? 

Andy Riemer: Absolutely. I learned compassion from my mom. I think most strongly she is constantly thinking about others. It's very clear in the actions that she takes in her professional life, as well as in her personal life, that she tries very hard to think about how others feel and then takes action from there. Also, I learned it from a time that was particularly developmentally impactful for me which was when I was 16. I saw on Facebook one morning, that a friend of mine had died from suicide. I took the time to look through her posts, my posts, and our friends to see if there's anything that anyone could have done to prevent this from happening. That led me down this path of mental health and social-emotional development of trying to understand how we can be the most supportive and encouraging to our fellow person, but also to our young people and to those with whom that may not feel like they belong. How can we encourage this compassion? And so, it's been a journey. From the beginning, I've had a great role model, Lansing, my mom. From that foundation, I've been trying to grow in learning on how to be more compassionate, to be more aware of my own biases, and then being able to be reflective in my practice of OK, when I'm trying to do a particular action in a compassionate manner. How is this landing on the other person? Is this really making an impact or, you know, trying to listen on how the other person is reacting with that? 

Jenny Woo: Thank you so much for being here, Andy. 

Andy Riemer: Thank you so much. And I really appreciate it. 

Jenny Woo: And thank you for tuning in to 52 Essential Conversations.