Episode 017

Transcript for Podcast Lesson on Race with Ivonne

Jenny Woo: Today we are sitting here with Yvonne Ortega talking about implicit bias. Yvonne is an early education professional with a master’s degree in instructional leadership. She is currently launching the National Anti-racist Early Education Network, which supports schools in applying principles of anti-racism to their work with young children. Welcome, Ivonne.

Jenny Woo: Tell us about this really complex hardpacked concept of implicit bias. What is it? 

Ivonne Ortega: Implicit bias is stereotypes that we all carry around, either consciously or unconsciously that we use to inform the decisions that we make in our lives. 

Jenny Woo: This concept is so important and certainly, it shapes how we view the world, each other, and ourselves. What do I do? When do I start to talk about this topic with my preschoolers, for example? 

Ivonne Ortega: I taught preschool for about five years in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and I noticed as a teacher that the biases that I held that came out in my classroom--children were keenly aware. They use that information to make their own decisions. At that age, it's really important to model what it means to be aware of those biases. Questioning what we do and not in a way where you're constantly neurotic.

Ivonne Ortega: There's plenty of other biases that I might have. For example, thinking about toys that are for girls and toys that are for boys. While marketing might tell us these are toys that boys will like and these are toys that girls will like, there is no science that tells us that girls implicitly like the color pink for example or that it's natural for boys not to want to wear a dress or something like that. So as a teacher, it's important for me to question those things and young children who are so naturally curious. They're constantly exploring those things until they learn that it's not OK. They learn that "well I'm a girl I shouldn't be playing in the block space, I should be making art or I should be playing in the home space." That's something that children learn over time. As an educator, I think it's important for me to notice when that's happening and encourage children to see themselves as whole people who are capable of doing many different things and exploring lots of different topics and ideas.

Jenny Woo: To tie in, what I'm hearing is this sense of language and self-awareness, and checking herself starts with the adults and understanding are there things that you are looking at perhaps are very much shaped by your own personal biases. But I want to talk a little bit more about the social and cultural norms of the mainstream. Sometimes there is certainly pressure when my daughter is playing with Legos and then all of her friends are playing with Barbie dolls. What do I do?

Ivonne Ortega:  Yeah, that's a tricky question, and I think a lot of parents get caught up in that because of course, every child wants to be a part of a group. They want to have friends and that's important to being humans, as to working with others. If your interests are different, and you noticed that they're different, and you as a parent also noticed that, it can be challenging. I think what's important is to encourage your daughter's interest in Legos and also inviting her peers to do those things with her and make that type of learning really exciting to the children.

Jenny Woo: Then on the flip side, as parents, we try to expose our children to a wide array of different extracurriculars and toys and things to perk up their interest and seeing where the stickiness is. What happens when this stickiness is just so strongly aligned with the very traditional modeling of mindset--those traditional roles. How do you balance that tension of still allowing them to be but also continuing to layer on the other perspectives?

Ivonne Ortega:  That's a great question. What's most important is that you're validating their feelings and their interests. Even if their interests are aligned with what's mainstream. I think as a parent you can question how you might be putting those biases on your child. But in terms of a girl child who likes ballet and likes dressing up and likes the idea of looking "pretty," for example, that's not something that you want to tell your child is not okay or they should be focused on being a strong woman or strong girl or they should really be thinking about science instead of thinking about fashion or design or things like that. It's most important to validate children's experiences and feelings and interests while still exposing them to a variety of things.

Ivonne Ortega: It's not effective when here when you're pushing an idea or an activity on your child that they can be resistant. I mean, naturally are resistant to that. But to validate what they're thinking and feeling, but also keep their world open. Showing them different literature books, people who might be pushing the boundaries, and pushing on those societal norms that we all face.

Jenny Woo: Well said. What about especially with younger children. And I say this as a parent of three very different children. They've all came to me at very different times in their lives noticing you know whether it's demographics and certain stereotypes, they asked me that. But when do we bring that up or do we wait for them to actually be the ones to initiate?

Ivonne Ortega: I get that question a lot. With young children, it's important that we equip them with the language to have difficult conversations about race, about differences, about gender, etc. Even before they have the language to talk about those things, they are seeing racism play out in their lives. They may be questioning it nonverbally. When we know that they're seeing an act of racism or oppression happening, it's our job as adults to narrate what's happening for them because they don't have the language to talk about it. And as they grow older, if we don't equip them with that language and show them that it's important to have these conversations, then children get the message that it's not OK to talk about race. It's not OK to talk about difference and then they grow up to be adults who can't have those difficult conversations.

Jenny Woo: That's a great point at almost reminded me of the very simple example of labeling anatomy parts. You have these code names that sound really cutesy, but at the end of the day, they have to be provided the language to objectively name it and understand what it is. You mentioned as they grow older, equipping them with the language. What can we do as they grow older? Are there other tips that we can do as parents?

Ivonne Ortega: Honestly, I think it's versions of the same thing--the same types of noticing and language that you would use with a young child. You're kind of just amping that up as they get older. Asking them questions about what they see and what they notice. Giving them opportunities to be in dialogue with you about what they see in the world. I want to give a short plug for the Anti-racist Early Education Network. We believe that it is vital that children are equipped with the language to talk about racism so that they can grow to be critical thinkers who are capable of dismantling racism. Without that language and without that critical thinking skills that start very young: two, three years old, they will be able to have the language to talk about this as adults in ways that today we're not able to as a nation.

Jenny Woo: Yeah, exactly. It sounds like the adults like us need it even more at this time to begin to even model the right behavior in self-awareness. Tell me more about your network.

Ivonne Ortega: The Anti-racist Early Education Network, our theory of change is grounded in the belief that young children must be intentionally introduced to language about racism, so they can grow to be critical thinkers capable of dismantling racism. That theory of change really came from the question of how do we have conversations with young children about different oppressions, particularly racism, that we see and exist in our world that children are exposed to but are not encouraged to talk about. What the network does is that it works with schools that are currently engaging in anti-racism work in their school or racial justice work in their school, and it pairs them with another school that is also doing that work or is interested in it. Those two schools together create a professional learning community where they can discuss and dialogue about how to push their work forward. Not everyone is doing anti-racism work, especially in early education, and it's so important that people who are doing the work are in community with each other because they're all speaking the same language. You might be able to talk to a school that's down the street from you about best practices and how do they increase parent engagement and what are their policies like, but if they don't have the same values that your school does then you're not going to get very far. The purpose of the network is to connect these schools to create communities where they can really support each other and being anti-racist school communities.

Jenny Woo: Wow. Where were you when I was an early childhood school administrator? That Sounds so useful, and especially for the more homogenous communities. It empowers the types of language and awareness through the multiplier effect of the network to really talk about it and have additional toolsets that we can use for our children.

Jenny Woo: Any parting words in terms of good resources or books that we can look in to?

Ivonne Ortega: There's a book I really love to read to my class. It's called One of a Kind, Like Me by Laurin Mayeno and illustrated by Robert Liu-Trujillo. It's a story of a boy who wants to dress up as a princess for Halloween and his family supports him in making the costume. Then, he goes to school and is not well received by his classmates. He experiences teasing. What I really like about the story is that the child is then put in a position where he can either feel bad about himself and the fact that he is not adjusting to these norms or he can advocate for himself. In the story, the boy does advocate for himself and just says in the simplest way that children do: "boys can be princesses too." In the story, the other child who's doing the teasing just pauses and thinks about that statement. Instead of retreating and saying, "no this is the way things are." It's a moment of "oh! I hadn't thought about that." I think that's really the approach that I want to encourage teachers and parents and children to take when we encounter implicit bias.

Jenny Woo:  I love that. It's like the questions of why, And why not. And with that, thank you so much for being here.

Ivonne Ortega: Thank you, Jenny.

Jenny Woo: Thank you for tuning into 52 Essential Conversations.