Social Emotional Learning Topic: Standing Up

STANDING UP: 5 Key Lesson Takeaways

1. Standing up means to defend something that is being attacked because you believe in it.

2. Standing up for what you believe in is an essential life skill. Parents can help their children reflect on the things that they agree and disagree with and why.

3. All students have a voice, and this gives them a sense of agency.

4. When standing up, we must also acknowledge differences.

5. Parents can foster a safe space for children to feel comfortable vocalizing their opinions.

Children’s Book Recommendations:

This book tells the story of Ruby Bridges, an African American girl who is sent to an all-white school in Louisiana. For many months, she bravely walks into her classroom despite passing through a crowd of angry parents.This book captures Ruby’s courage and perseverance.

This book tells the story of Sally McCabe, a girl who decides it is time to stand up for what she believes in after witnessing several bullying incidents at her school. At first, few listen to Sally, but her bravery encourages other students to speak out against these injustices.

“Danny is a real-life superhero in training, learning about his most important superpower of all: ‘the power to choose.’ In this boo, you decide how Danny’s school day will end by making choices for him.”

In this book, Lotty Raccoon is bullied by Grant Grizzly when no adult is around. Despite following the advice given to her by her parents, Grant Grizzly, does not stop bothering her. As a result, Lotty Raccoon decides to form the Bully Blockers Club, which intends to encourage other children who are also being bullied by Grant Grizzly to speak up.

The story of one girl who inspires a community to stand up to bullying. Inspired by real events, this book explores the feelings of helplessness and anger that arise in the wake of seeing a classmate treated badly, and shows how a single act of kindness can lead to an entire community joining in to help.

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Transcript for Podcast Lesson on Standing Up with Tony DelaRosa

Jenny Woo [00:00:51] I'm sitting next to Tony DelaRosa. Hello, hello. And today we will be talking about the topic of standing up. Tony is California by chance and Cambridge by choice. He is a proud Filipino-American educator, writer, entrepreneur, spoken word poet, and budding sriracha chef. He is a co-founder of Indy Pulse, a citywide youth spoken word organization in Indianapolis, and founder and executive director of Boston Pulse Poetry, which is located in Greater Boston, Massachusetts. His work has been featured well, in so many places. But just to name a few, most recently, in the Harvard Ed. magazine, the Asian American Policy Review, CNN, and NPR. Welcome, Tony. Hello. I'm glad to be here. So tell us, what did standing up mean to you?

 Tony DelaRosa [00:01:57] Standing up means one, to speak your truth in moments where you can be challenged by it when you feel like the truth is being compromised. Those are moments where I feel like standing up is very important and vital. When I work with youth, I always tell them that one of my core values, every time I teach, every year I teach, is speaking your truth, and standing up because we need more people to do that. It’s difficult, extremely difficult, especially in a time and an era such as this era, in this reductionist era.   

Jenny Woo [00:02:31] How do you encourage children to speak the truth and even a step back to recognize what is the truth?

 Tony DelaRosa [00:02:43] Yeah, so as an educator for the last six years, informally, and formally, I try to expose different perspectives on one fact and one event. That way they didn't comprise their own truths because there are many different truths depending on the angle and that's the difficult part because when I work with youth that kids will say, well, my parents said blank and blank and blank. So that's true. And then my pastor or my or the priest said, blank, blank, and blank. So they're combining all these truths and I'm telling them a different truth. And then the principal saw it and then their friends were telling them different truths. So they're balancing, juggling all of these truths in their daily lives any given day. And how can they decide which truth they decide? They decide based on how things play out in their lives, how things affect them. So that's one thing I noticed, that truth is very complex.

Jenny Woo [00:03:44] How do you help them to reconcile the complexities of truth, especially when it's sort of juxtaposing or contradictory to each other?

Tony DelaRosa [00:03:56] So with truth, what I try to do is I try to provide my own angle on it as well. Teachers, educators are told not to be biased or give their own opinion in the classroom. That is a train of thought. That's a notion in education. But I am against that. I think that there's a false truth of not being political in the classroom, right. I’m in the train of thought that politics is everywhere, between the things you eat, especially as a Filipino-American. Like when I grew up, I understood politics right away when I brought in Filipino food

Tony DelaRosa [00:04:39] and the kids did not hang out with me because of the vinegar smell or the funky smells that they thought were funky, but I thought they were beautiful and delicious. So politics are everywhere from the minuscule to the macro-level as well. So I just try to give them my own version. I can't control their truths, but I can give them my own perspective on my own truth and just modeling my own truth and getting to that point. And, you know, the truth can show a little bit of suffering. So I showed my own suffering. I tell them like, well, in this situation, the truth behind this situation with my Filipino experience when I was younger, that it sucked. When I was eating, the kids did not approach me. I lost friends for doing that. And that's a certain type of truth as well that they need to hear. I'm a different person now. I feel like more people think of me as a happy-go-lucky person, a person that people go to all the time. But I wasn't that person when I was younger because I had to unpack truths. I had to sit with them and understand them and be able to just confront them myself and say, like, you know what, that is a part of me, whether I like it or not.

Jenny Woo [00:05:51] Yeah, that's such a great point. I think as parents, it reminds me that we tend to overemphasize this type of conformation, conforming to the truth with our children, the social norms, right. If our children ask us certain questions that it's actually a really good teachable moment of why is this the truth, why is this the norm? But yet we just sweep it aside and say this is the way it is. So I really love that you're really sharing this journey of transformation of thought process. And I think we could do that more as parents. I am also curious, for example, for the children who haven't quite been given the opportunity to stand up for themselves and to have that voice, how do they show up behaviorally in the classrooms that you've taught?

TonyDelaRosa [00:06:45] This is specifically when I think about not having a voice or having a voice, right. Students all have a voice in some form. So I just want to be clear in terms of adults not giving them a voice. We don't give them a voice, but we give them platforms for that, right. So then the spaces write for this voice to flourish. And that's what I try to do. As a spoken word educator, I try to bring in as many in any space that I am running for spoken word. I try to create a space where even the most silenced can say a little bit, like one word. They can speak up so they can feel comfortable and feel safe, as safe as it can be. Because, you know, I can't promise safety in any space. But I can encourage their courage. I can encourage us to be as safe as possible based on norms that we set, community agreements that we set together, and trying to make it as inclusive as possible.

Jenny Woo [00:07:44] What can parents do at home to foster this brave space?

Tony DelaRosa [00:07:49] I would say one, is letting the students create and co-create community agreements within the family, right. So I grew up in an Asian-American family and I'm stereotyping here, I’m generalizing, but there's a notion that Asian-American families are very strict and I lived in that strict environment. It doesn't go to say that your parents would not have listened to you if you would have spoken up, right? If I would've spoken up, I wish I would've spoken up, and had that space to say, hey, you know what? What you're saying, what we're saying, I don't agree with.  Just having that conversation and having that space, that norm that you set with your child, I think that's important. And then, as Jenny was saying earlier, being able to reflect on why you don't agree on things. I think that's a simple system that you can create in the household and in a classroom, anywhere you go just to unpack what they're thinking because there's so much that is living in the body, in the mind, the soul that we don't see all the time, right?  Like the iceberg. You see that iceberg on the surface, but underneath, there are so many bugaboos living there, whether they're positive or negative, we want to hear them both, right? So just being able to get that space and say, hey, let's check-in real quick. Do you agree with what I just told you about anything? Yes or no? Why? Right.

Jenny Woo [00:09:20] Yeah, and it also reminds me of the theme of identity, building your identity, finding out the identities around you, and then how you connect with others. Tell me more about how that ties into having a voice, the courage of that, and courage of standing up.

Tony DelaRosa [00:09:40] Yes! So I feel like being able to stand up is like one of the destinations right? That it's tough because I know there's so many different rocks and barriers and loops to jump over before you even get to a point where you can feel like you're comfortable and standing up or just be where you can do that. And I think that one helps when you look and examine your own identity and are a master of your own identity to a certain extent, right? With the program that I run, Boston Pulse, which is the youth organization that I run here in Boston, my first part of the curriculum is all based on identity. What is your identity? Where I'm from, place, name, the roots of your heritage, right. And being able to dissect your identity, understand the truths in your identity helps you. One, navigate the world in a better space that helps you process things that are happening that are difficult, right. When events come up, for example, if you're having a fight with your parents, for example, you know what is your truth, how you can deal with it, right, as a student now. And it's not just using poetry, right? You're able to articulate. The kids are able to articulate what they need. And a problem is that youth sometimes don't even know how to articulate what they want or need because they don't have opportunities to do so. So, yeah, I think that's one way to help out. To really just ask. Like, start with identity, start fostering, start learning about your history, right. There's a phrase that I love and that I learned here from one of my Harvard teachers/mentors. No history, no self, no history, no self. When you know your history, you really know yourself, right?  If you don't know your history, you don't know yourself. And that's really important. That's a phrase I will stick with me forever.

Jenny Woo [00:11:40] You basically ran the Indy Pulse, co-founded that, and now at Boston Pulse.

What is your vision for the next steps and accomplishments that you've had?

 Tony DelaRosa [00:11:51] Yeah. Yeah. So right now from Indy Pulse and Boston Pulse, what we have been doing is like citywide slams for middle school mostly because that is a gap in the cities. There's a lot of programming for high school students so I feel like they're there on that cusp to graduate. There are actual programs for high schools to get scholarships, one being the First Wave in Madison, Wisconsin,  a one of a kind program. But we focus primarily on middle schools here in Boston. And we have been doing a number of things, getting students on stages, right. That's one thing because one part of our program is public speaking. Spoken word poetry, if you dissect it, too, if you dissect the words, spoken and then the word and it would teach poetry and analyze poetry, to write poetry, to perform it. And part of the performance is public speaking. So that helps with the standing up aspect and speaking the truth. So first, the process goes as we expose students to spoken word poets, either live performances here in Boston because there are amazing poets in Boston and in the region and we want students to know that so they have mentors and there are a number of resources online which we'll get to.

Tony DelaRosa [00:13:09] But yeah, we expose them to the poetry. Then I model my own poetry,  and of course, I have to model my own poetry because they don't get to hear from a Filipino-American poet and their story very often, right? I teach mostly black and brown students from the Caribbean. So when they hear a Filipino poet, it's interesting. They can see the intersection between me and theirs, but also feel like, oh, wow, this is different, and I like learning about this difference. So that's a good way to also teach it to honor the differences that we have in every shared space.

Jenny Woo [00:13:43] I love the aspects of vulnerability and relatability through Boston Pulse and Indy Pulse. I was just thinking, as you're talking, I really wish I had this. I think this is the new speech and debate. That's what I'm saying. Right! I mean, I did speech and debate and I can tell you, I think I did cross-examination.

Jenny Woo [00:14:06] I was literally reciting reading over pages and pages of evidence, not knowing exactly what they mean. And more importantly, how does that impact me? So, I love it. What's the website?

Tony DelaRosa [00:14:21] So right now we are founded on our umbrella organization Indy Pulse. So if you go to Indy Pulse dot org, you'll see a tab that says Boston Pulse there. And we're going to be creating our own web site very soon. In the future, you'll see it as Boston Pulse poetry dot org. But for now, you can go to Indy Pulse dot org so you can see where we started off and where we're going. 

Jenny Woo [00:14:43] Love it! Are there additional programs and resources you’d like to provide to us?

Tony DelaRosa [00:14:50] Yeah, yeah, there's plenty. So I want to honor, I don't want to leave this podcast without honoring the people who helped us build our own community here in Boston. So one, first being MassLEAP Massachusetts. I'm going to bludgeon this one, Massachusetts Literacy Education, Arts Performance Collective. Yes, they have been like the older sister of our organization here and they work with mostly high school and they run the Louder than a Bomb spoken word poetry festival. There's anywhere you can go. There's also Get Lit poetry, which is in L.A., tons of resources online and featured on the Oprah show, right. There's also SlamFind, which is on YouTube. SlamFind is a video of where they have spoken word videos. And there are newer forms, right? And we want youth to see that they're more culturally relevant, I believe, at least in my experience, watching SlamFind, I see more poets that are coming from my background. For example, in terms of cultural relevance, like low income, first-gen, black and brown POC backgrounds, right. SlamFind is a good place for that. Be More in Baltimore. There are Young Chicago Authors and they're also like the founders of Louder than a Bomb. Shout out to Kevin Coval out there. And yeah, if you just type in spoken word, you'll find a number of resources. We’re a new topic, a new study that's happening. And I know we’re the first wave in Madison, Wisconsin. But as an educator, I want to start more programs like that because I know that youth need a space for that and they can really flourish and make even a career out of this, telling the truth and standing up, right. And it will help their society.

Jenny Woo [00:16:41] Yeah. What a great career. Thank you so much, Tony, for being here. And thank you for tuning in to 52 Essential Conversations.

Social Emotional Learning Topic: Taking Risks

TAKING RISKS: 5 Key Lesson Takeaways

1. Don’t be afraid of taking risks! Fear should not be the answer. Respond positively. Some risks, ones that are manageable and controlled, are worth taking.

2. Taking risks can teach kids valuable lessons. They learn to be in tune with their bodies, to assess situations critically and build confidence.

3. It is important to consider and understand everyone’s perspectives. Some parents or kids are more fearful than others. Finding that balance of being more open-minded and still being able to control and protect ourselves is key.

4. Sometimes, we have to let our kids fail to learn how to succeed! We can’t know how to do something without trying at least.

5. Be proactive and not reactive.

Children’s Book Recommendations:

“Boy Raindrop is afraid to let go of his cloud and drop to the ground. He doesn't want to take a risk, he doesn't like change, and he is happy with his comfortable life. His father encourages him to jump out of his comfort zone and see what he is missing. Don't Be Afraid To Drop is a book for anyone who is at a transitional point in their life. From the beginning kindergartner, to an adult who is facing retirement, and everyone in between, this creative analogy provides all who read it with a positive perspective on change, taking risks, and giving back.”

“Following in the footsteps of Dr. Wayne Dyer’ first children’ book, the bestseller Incredible You! this work goes even further toward expressing Wayne’ positive message for children. In Unstoppable Me! Dr. Dyer teaches children how to hold on to the no-limit thinking he believes they were born with, rather than just trying to " in." In doing so, they can learn to truly enjoy life and become unstoppable as they strive to attain their dreams. The 10 important lessons in this book include the value of taking risks, dealing with stress and anxiety, and learning to enjoy each moment.”

“Jabari is definitely ready to jump off the diving board. He’s finished his swimming lessons and passed his swim test, and he’s a great jumper, so he’s not scared at all. “Looks easy,” says Jabari, watching the other kids take their turns. But when his dad squeezes his hand, Jabari squeezes back. He needs to figure out what kind of special jump to do anyway, and he should probably do some stretches before climbing up onto the diving board. In a sweetly appealing tale of overcoming your fears, Gaia Cornwall captures a moment between a patient and encouraging father and a determined little boy you can’t help but root for.”

Book Recommendations for Parents:

“In Free to Learn, developmental psychologist Peter Gray argues that our children, if free to pursue their own interests through play, will not only learn all they need to know, but will do so with energy and passion. To foster children who will thrive in today’s constantly changing world, we must entrust them to steer their own learning and development. Drawing on evidence from anthropology, psychology, and history, Gray demonstrates that free play is the primary means by which children learn to control their lives, solve problems, get along with peers, and become emotionally resilient.” 

“This book offers strategies to help kids from 18 months to 18 years build seven crucial “Cs” - competence, confidence, connection, character, contribution, coping, and control -so they can bounce back from challenges and excel in life. The book describes how to raise authentically successful children who will be happy, hardworking, compassionate, creative, and innovative. Dr. Ginsburg reminds parents that our goal is to think in the present and prepare for the future, to remember that our real goal is to raise children to be successful 35-year-olds. It’s about more than immediate smiles or even good grades; it’s about raising kids to be emotionally and socially intelligent, to be able to recover from disappointment and forge ahead throughout their lives.”

“William Stixrud and Ned Johnson focus on the ways that children today are being denied a sense of controlling their own lives—doing what they find meaningful, and succeeding or failing on their own. Screen time, the authors say, is part of the problem, but so are well-meaning parents and schools, who are unwittingly taking from children the opportunities they need to grow stronger, more confident and more themselves. Changes in our culture in the last 10 or 15 years appear to have contributed to an even sharper decline in a sense of control. For one, kids play much less than they did even a decade ago, as their time is taken up by more school hours, more scheduled activities and more screen time than ever before. Researcher Peter Gray was one of the first to connect fewer opportunities to play to a decline in a sense of control.”

Transcript for Podcast Lesson on Taking Risks with Amelia

Jenny Woo: Welcome to 52 Essential Conversations. I'm Jenny Woo and we're sitting next to Amelia Eppel and today we're talking about taking risks. Amelia, as a UK-trained, early-childhood teacher and recent graduate from the Human Development and Psychology Program at the Harvard Graduate School of Education. As a teacher, Amelia delights in creating learning environments, where kids are purposeful and independent, both indoors and outdoors. With also 10 years of experience as a nanny for babies from two months and two teenagers of 14, Amelia has had the opportunity to think about what makes a healthy and happy child at home, as well as in the classroom. Welcome, Amelia.

Jenny Woo: Tell us, what is taking risk means to you?

Amelia Eppel: Well, I'm thinking about taking risks in terms of physical risks as well as mental risks: being brave, trying new things.

Jenny Woo: Tell me more about physical risks.

Amelia Eppel:  The way that I think about it is something that you want to do, but you maybe don't feel you have the capacity to do it. So it might be something easy, like walking along the street is not a risk until you have something you need to climb or you have something you need to jump over or something that might be a little bit out of the ordinary. So it's kind of those bumps, those different things that you might encounter.

Jenny Woo: Yeah. Oh, that sounds so much fun. It actually reminds me of this adventure playground that I take my children to where it's not a playground in the traditional sense, but it's honestly, it's just nature. It's everywhere. So I know you've worked a lot in terms of outdoor education. What do you do?

Amelia Eppel: So I've worked in an indoor and outdoor kindergarten and preschool and we had three different gardens. One of them was very wild. One of them had a big tree in it and they'd created a treehouse as part of it, which the children could climb on. They could climb the tree and then there was a big area for riding bikes and scooters and different kinds of vehicles. That kindergarten also had a big outside, public space next to it. So, we did a lot of adventuring there, bear hunts through the bushes, climbing boulders, and sliding down the mud hill, those sorts of things.

Jenny Woo: Lots of laundries.

Amelia Eppel: Yes.

Jenny Woo: Yeah,  haha I love it!

Jenny Woo: So, you know, as a parent, I'm so curious because you must get a lot of different children, different personalities, which sort of will inform how they approach risks and what they perceive as risks as well as their home environment in terms of what is emphasized and what isn't. So tell me, a little bit more about those differences that you see in children when they first come to school.

Amelia Eppel: Yeah, that's a really big one, actually. When they first arrive, you get so many different kinds of perspectives on what it feels like to do the things that we do every day. Some kids are really, really nervous. They hang back or they want to hold your hand or climb up on you, be carried down things, and some of them will throw themselves headfirst at it. So, that's really interesting and it's not always clear why those children are behaving that way. Sometimes, the parents may say, “Oh, we don't want what he's wearing to get dirty.” So, you have to wear the rain boots and the water-proofs, which is useful anyway and important, if it's wet, but, you can tell maybe that they are quite protected at home or they need to be kept clean.

Amelia Eppel: But some kids will be nervous. Parents might not be nervous about them getting dirty particularly and they are nervous and other kids just have no fear. I think it’s just personality sometimes.

Amelia Eppel: But there are definitely things that parents do or don't do or can do that affects how much they are interested in exploring.

Jenny Woo: So, tell us some examples of parents which, in your case as a teacher, how you encourage responsible risk-taking.

Amelia Eppel: Yeah. So there are a few things that you can do really, that we used a lot, which is working with children, doing it with them. A lot of role modeling of, “This is fun and it's exciting” and if you do it alongside them, they're more likely to try it. And so, that's a really big one, just showing kids the way. It's really about your actions but also, about your words and this is something, which I think, as a society, we find quite hard. And it's like the automatic way that you speak to kids can be a problem. And even, you know, knowing these things, I find it difficult sometimes myself. But I'm not saying, “Oh, be careful!” expressing that fear that they might not be in control, but instead, there are ways that you can communicate to them that you want them to be careful but in a more positive way, that gets them to notice their surroundings or notice their body or what they might need to do to keep safe.

Amelia Eppel: So things like saying, “Have you noticed where you need to put your foot to climb that tree?” or “Why don't you try using your hands to balance?” Or “Have you thought you might make sure you're wearing wellies?”  -we call them wellies, rain boots and things like that- so that they develop a sense of kind of autonomy over what they need to do to keep themselves safe and able to learn at the same time.

Jenny Woo: I really like the language that you use and it's very productive and it's kind of like planning a base.

Jenny Woo: “Have you planned your rules? Have you thought about this? Have you done that?” instead of, “Oh no, Be careful!” or, “Watch out!”

Jenny Woo: So it's actually, interestingly, more proactive than reactive.

Amelia Eppel: Exactly. It's really about encouraging decision-making and problem-solving rather than creating fear. Because if you're communicating fear, I think it does different things to different people but for some children, it will make them fearful and for some children, it might make them want to do it even more and maybe in a more dangerous way, you can say they want to prove something. You know, different kids react differently to that.

Jenny Woo: Yeah. So with that, let's use your second one as the example, where this also ties into impulse-control.

Jenny Woo: And I also reminded me I believe it's Peter Gray’s book on play. He mentioned something about the thrill of it.

Jenny Woo: That thrill like not knowing if you could really do it but, having enough self-confidence to proceed with it and then afterward realizing, “Oh my goodness, I could do this!” and that's a great confidence booster. But of course, as parents, we're kind of holding our breath going, “Oh my god, what are we going to do? Is that a trip to the E.R.?”

Amelia Eppel: Yeah, haha!

Jenny Woo: So balancing the two, specifically for children, balancing and post-control, doing it for skill-building, for curiosity, for the love of it, maybe thrill. How do you see the thrill and how do you see impulse control in that?

Amelia Eppel: Yeah, that's a really interesting question because it is such a fine line, I think.

Amelia Eppel: I think it's something that we have to constantly navigate when we’re with children, kind of trying to step back and take a second and assess the danger, the risk. I'm wondering, “What is the worst that could happen?” and, “Is it likely that they are going to break their leg?” Constantly just checking in with ourselves, Is it fear? because, we want to control it or we're not sure of what they are doing or that’s not what we want them to be doing, which is a different thing, too. That is a dangerous thing to be doing. Impulse-control and children, this is something that's come out of research on nature. Nature-based schooling and outdoor learning are really beneficial for impulse-control because they learn how to navigate their bodies, the boundaries of what their bodies can do, and regulate themselves through that amount of physical activity.

Amelia Eppel: As much as anything else.

Amelia Eppel: So I think it is a fine line of the threat there is, thrill in it, but that is part of what helps to regulate what is positive and what is dangerous. You can imagine, if you never had a chance to try anything that was exciting, you wouldn't know what was positive excitement or what wasn't, so finding the boundaries of what is scary and what is dangerous.

Jenny Woo: It's so awesome, but also so frustrating at the same time that this definition is so relative and it entirely changes developmentally. And it is rewarding, as a child, to approach a monkey-bar that, maybe she or he was really afraid of, and being able to make it from one end to the other versus two years ago. That's a great comparison of knowing where you are.

Jenny Woo: I can't help but ask. You've had a great long experience working as a nanny and you must really see behind-the-scenes working with different families. So don’t want to air out too much dirty laundry but…give us some insights into taking risks from an adult standpoint, in the sense of parents. How? What are some of the ways you’ve seen how parents enable, allow, or encourage children or NOT to take risks that have worked or not worked so well?

Amelia Eppel: Yeah. Gosh, so many.

Amelia Eppel: Well at the moment, I'm looking after a baby, who is 10 months now, so he's just started crawling a month or two ago. Now, he's got very fast and he's got very good at pulling up on things. One of the things that he keeps wanting to pull up on our chairs and some of the chairs are not strong enough to take his weight if he pulls up on it.  At first, I wasn't sure what the best tactic was because if you let him pull up on it and then it falls over on him, that's dangerous.

Amelia Eppel: He will hurt himself. Something that is not helpful is to hold the chair or sit on the chair so that he doesn't know that it could fall on him. So I've been trying to balance kind of lightly holding the chair so it doesn't actually fall on him, but so that he feels that it's not strong enough and then he stopped doing it because he knows that that's not gonna work, but not kind of watching from the other side of the room thinking, well, that's not gonna work.

Jenny Woo: Right.

Amelia Eppel: It's going to fall on him. But at the same time, not stepping in before he has a chance to find out that that's not something he can do because otherwise, he won't learn that some things aren't strong enough. Some things are bobbly. Some things are good for climbing on. Some things aren't. So.

Amelia Eppel: Kind of navigating that.

Jenny Woo: That is really interesting because, you know, in Westernized society or even specifically in the US, there's a whole lot of regulations, especially around baby products; a product that touches the whole child-development part. You get lawsuits and you can't make a product anymore because of these accidents, you know? And yes, it's a good thing but then it also makes me personally wonder, How much of that is too overprotective? or like user-error in a sense. So that's an interesting point. I'm going to go back to my question again, working with different families. I'm sure your entry point, when you get into that family to help with the child or children are at different ages and so some are more settled in terms of their routines and expectations and how they operate as a family. As someone who advocates for risk-taking responsibility, especially outdoors, how do you manage these expectations but still challenge them in such a way, that they are able to take more risk? And I say that because maybe in a household with two to a couple. One might be in the school, and you just let them play with them, figure it out. The other one may be more conservative. So how do you manage those dynamics?

Amelia Eppel: Yeah, that's a great question. I definitely get a variety of standpoints on this. It's kind of something that I've always felt is best to do slowly and in the same way that you might want kids to take risks, kind of manageable risk. And I might take the risk of one day, you know, saying, oh, let's go out and play, even though it's raining. And some families, they just don't take them out when it's raining. Know, which is, you know, that's a choice. That's fine. But for me, there’s a lot of learning to be had in the rain. I make sure that I'm taking those boxes of what they need for their kids, so making sure that they're really well dressed, that I have everything they might need, if that's something that they're worried about, you know, making sure we have snacks, making sure we have a phone and making sure I told them exactly when we were going to be back and having contingency plans.

Amelia Eppel:  So, those things are covered. And then pushing it a little bit-

Amelia Eppel:  -letting them play in the rain or play in the mud, but knowing that as soon as we got home, they can change and put on clean clothes and they're not gonna get hypothermia.

Jenny Woo: Haha!

Amelia Eppel: Yeah, it's about having the right amount of things to feel safe and protected. And usually, parents are surprised by how much their kids enjoy it and how it's not that big an issue. And it usually ends up like, “Oh wow, they had such a good time!” and they trust in it. But it's all about building up trust, like I'm not gonna take them down a cliff or they, you know, without climbing gear on if they're going climbing.

Amelia Eppel: But it’s making sure you have all of your things, your bases covered in terms of safety and whatever the parents might be concerned about.

Jenny Woo: Yeah, I love that.

Jenny Woo: Not giving up, really understanding, what everybody, ALL parties need in this case. And so, there is hope for other couples where maybe one is a little bit more adventurous than the other or maybe the in-laws are more of a hovering type.

Amelia Eppel: Yes.

Jenny Woo: To build that trust.

Amelia Eppel: Exactly.

Jenny Woo: And with that said, thank you so much for being here, Emily.

Amelia Eppel: Thank you, it was such a pleasure.

Jenny Woo: Thank you, for tuning into 52 Essential Conversations.

Social Emotional Learning Topic: Self-Motivation

SELF-MOTIVATION: 5 Key Lesson Takeaways

1. Self-motivation consists of finding the things that interest you and motivate you to want to work towards the ultimate goal.

2. Take the time to learn about your child/student’s interests so that you can incorporate these things into their education. It will help them learn the things they aren’t interested in or struggle with if it is related to something they are passionate about. 

3. Teach them how to use technology in a positive way (ex: look up answers to things they are curious about). Parents/Adults can be role models in this sense by looking up answers to questions their children have.

4. It is important to give your children space in which they can make their own decisions while also setting boundaries. Children feel respected when you allow them to make their own decisions because they feel a sense of responsibility and trust.

5. Self-motivation takes a lot of practice for parents, teachers, and children, but listening and valuing your child’s voice can help them develop their values and self-confidence.

Book Recommendations:

This is the story of a persistent problem and the child who isn't so sure what to make of it. The longer the problem is avoided, the bigger it seems to get. But when the child finally musters up the courage to face it, the problem turns out to be something quite different than it appeared.

A powerful story for young girls. This book follows Grace, who decides she wants to be the first female president, and to do so, she’ll need hard work, courage and independent thought.

Teaches the valuable lesson that there’s no one “right way” to do things — it’s ok to be creative and different!

A little girl and her fury friend set out on a mission to make something magnificent but meet discouraging roadblocks on their way. Children can relate with the frustrated little girl and learn from her canine companion about perspective.

Transcript for Podcast Lesson on Self-Motivation with Kate

Jenny Woo [00:00:50] We are here sitting next to Kate James to talk about self-motivation. Kate is an educator and designer who runs the preview program at the new view innovation school in Cambridge Massachusetts. There she engages five to eight-year-olds and design studios where they learn to think through problems, make things, and talk about their work. Kate recently completed a master’s degree at the Harvard Graduate School of Education with a focus on arts and education. She also has a Masters of Science and visual studies from M.I.T. and worked for many years as a design researcher and product designer. 

Jenny Woo [00:01:35] Welcome Kate. Thank you so much for having me. So tell us what does self-motivation mean to you?

Kate James [00:01:43] I was thinking about what self-motivation is and I was actually thinking of it in reference to just finishing this program at Harvard. I had this impulse to go check my grades and I was wondering because that's actually counter to what I believe in. I don't really think that grades are a great register of people's talents or skills but I had this feeling like I needed to find out what these professors thought of my work. I think in terms of what self-motivation is it's the lack of needing to do that. It's when you actually don't need to go check your grades because you've gotten feedback from yourself and others that comes without the carrot and stick model that comes without either being rewarded with the A or punished with the C or things outside of grades. The feedback that comes from the world in a more organic way allows you to find things within yourself that make you want to keep working and keep moving towards goals. 

Jenny Woo [00:02:45] Kate you're also a mother of three and so you know the realities of parenting are it's rather hard when we're not dangling the carrots and the rewards. So tell us what are some of the things that have worked for you in terms of planting the seeds in our children and valuing those things within themselves and finding those values and validating them. 

Kate James [00:03:09] So I actually find that self-motivation is a skill that needs to be almost practiced. So to begin I think with my own children and also with the students that I teach, I find that the first step is like really listening to what the child values to really hear what they care about and use those stakes that they have as a way into work. Using what they care about and what they love to get them started on a road towards something. Then if they practice that skill of working towards a goal in the area of something they love then they get used to the process of working towards goals and then they can kind of deploy that in areas where maybe they're less naturally interested but they kind of get used to the skill of working towards something and being persistent and finding ways around problems. That makes sense. 

Jenny Woo [00:04:06] So having that self-discipline and seeing the benefits of sticking to a goal. Give me an example. You've done a lot of work in maker space area design studios. What if for example, my child is so into that stuff, making things, but I also want to motivate him. Maybe at math, at school and I hate to bring up the grades right. Also that as well. 

Jenny Woo [00:04:32]  What can I do to channel his passion for making things and relating that to academics.  

Kates James [00:04:41] You start in a space where somebody is really passionate. 

Kate James [00:04:46] I know my son is really passionate about building things and building spaces and building things out of Legos and that kind of thing. So we actually started to do some 3D modeling on the computer and then you kind of run into math. It's there and you can't avoid it. You get to a point where you're like well I need to figure out the proportions of this hamster that I'm trying to 3D print so I need the head to be this big and I need the body to be this big. You kind of just bump up against it. I think if it's in an area where kids are interested and passionate then they tend not to see it as a stopping point where they might in a school situation. I think the problem that we run into at school is when things start to show up as rote worksheets and problems that don't relate to their real life or their real interests. It's a tough gap to bridge. But it's an important one to bridge. If we can kind of find the threads that could maybe join these things up like the things that they care about and the things that they have to understand, then that's where we really need to start weaving things together. 

Jenny Woo [00:05:57] Tell me more about the thread right. So I can’t help but feeling overwhelmed at times. Right. There's only so much time I have during the day for us to have that quality time with my children. But then on top we have school homework, activities, and readings and how do I bridge that thread without killing myself. 

Kate James [00:06:18] It's a tough question and I think as mothers we certainly always feel kind of a pull. Where is the proportion of my time being spent and should I be reallocating it and questioning that all the time it comes back to listening. It comes back to where you really need to have just a few moments here and there where you pause and really listen to what your kid is saying. 

Kate James [00:06:42] I think as a society in general it's really easy for us to kind of bowl over that and be like get your homework done, get to your activity, finish your sports practice, do all the things on your list but then the child's voice is often really lost in that and where you can start to build threads into more academic topics is when you're really listening to what the child cares about how they feel about math for example. 

Kate James [00:07:09] Kids can have really complicated relationships with math and they can feel self motivation to do math if they are doing it in a way that resonates with them and that is interesting to them. I know my son the way that he was doing addition was just it seemed completely quirky and fascinating to me that if he was doing 19 plus 13 he would take the heat. He felt more comfortable with eights and twos. So he would take a one off the 19 and it would take a one off of the 13 and then he could add 18 and twelve and get thirty and then he would ask his two straggler friends to come back and make the thirty two. That really unique kind of way that he was doing math, once we were working in his method he was way more interested in doing his math homework. 

Jenny Woo [00:08:02] That's such a good point. You know it's almost like it is listening but it's also being open, being open minded to what they like and how they like it and there are unique ways. That is so incredibly important to truly help us understand who our children are so that we can help them to get to where they like to be. You know actually your example reminded me of this one morning. You're right. It doesn't take a lot of time just to have that little amount of time that quality that you can get into. This other day in the morning we were eating mini pancakes because you know I just don't have time to make pancakes pancakes from scratch. 

Jenny Woo [00:08:47] So I buy the overpriced mini pancakes. 

Jenny Woo [00:08:50] And interestingly it was before school and we had about five different mini pancakes and someone, one of my three children just started slicing them into halves a lightbulb just came up I was like Oh this is fraction right. 

Jenny Woo [00:08:50] And interestingly it was before school and we had about five different mini pancakes and someone, one of my three children just started slicing them into halves a lightbulb just came up I was like Oh this is fraction right. 

Jenny Woo [00:09:06] Yeah. So we did pancake fractions.

Kate James [00:09:15] Ben actually wrote on his homework sheet it says like what did you study and how did you practice it. He actually wrote pancake fractions. 

Jenny Woo [00:09:22] I love it. Right. 

Jenny Woo [00:09:24] It's those little things and it's so interesting because we started dividing it into fourths and 16th’s and all that stuff. I started linking it to the concepts of piano notes. So you have the whole no quarter no half no 16 note. Then what we did with that was we started clapping with how the pancakes were structured and to like a song. So needless to say the pancakes were gross by the end of it, did not eat it, but that was a learning self-motivated learning experience. 

Kate James [00:09:56] That's beautiful. And I love the exploratory nature of it because you can kind of start like how do pancakes relate to math and then how does math relate to music and then it just all kind of links up in a much more holistic way. The kids don't even realize that they're learning. It's just kind of happening and it's interesting and it peaks even more curiosity I think and it starts to make them see connections between things that they might not see otherwise. 

Jenny Woo [00:10:23] Yeah yeah. I like how you say it piques curiosity. I have another small example and I love your advice on this one. My five-year-old started using the word “I wonder'' and the first time I heard that I paused and I was like wow that is so beautiful. But it was really to basically ask after you know going to number two. He said I wonder where do my poos go. I was like oh okay. 

Jenny Woo [00:10:52] We should look that up or something. But then we ran out of time and you know something else came up like what can we do in moments of wonderment like that. 

Kate James [00:11:08] I think anybody with a five-year-old has probably been asked that question. 

Kate James [00:11:11] Yeah these little moments of curiosity I wonder how you can kind of grasp them and not let them just drift by and be forgotten. I almost wonder if we could have a curiosity log or something. That's a good idea. That keeps track of all the things that they're curious about because I know it feels like rapid fire questions a lot of times especially my three children are eight, six, and three. They're asking me tons of questions all the time and they're at different levels so they're all different levels of questions. It can often feel like a firing squad. This is maybe where technology is so amazing like 20 years ago we would have had to stop and really do something like deep research about plumbing systems and answer that question. Now we can ask Siri about plumbing on the way to school which is amazing. Maybe using technology in that way is a really fruitful way to kind of get at kids core questions really quickly and then move on with your day. I don't know if we'll ever be able to keep up with our kids' questions and curiosities but I think that effort that we put in  to answer their questions is noted by them. 

Kate James [00:12:25] And I think it's valuable. It's one way that we show them that we love them and value them as individuals. 

Jenny Woo [00:12:32] Yeah that's true. I can see that as they get older and just being in this habit of looking it up then they are in power themselves to look it up. Which is great. 

Jenny Woo [00:12:43] So just some parting questions so how. Tell me some tips. 

Jenny Woo [00:12:47]  How do you motivate your kids at home to do the stuff that they don't want to do. 

Kate James [00:12:54] Oh yeah so this is always a topic in development. I have not been above bribing my children to do their homework. 

Kate James [00:13:05] I'm not infallible but what I've actually found to be the most effective way of getting my kids to be self-motivated to do things is actually counter-intuitive. It's actually to give them space. 

Kate James [00:13:20]  While my husband, for example, has a tendency to want to say put on your pajamas, put on your pajamas, put on your pajamas seventy-five thousand times until my child will put on his pajamas. I actually find that if I just say like we're going to go to bed at 9 o'clock and that's when the lights get dimmed and if you aren't wearing your pajamas I guess you're sleeping in your clothes. My children will get their pajamas on every time before that happens because I've respected them enough to give them credit for making a decision. Yeah. I've expected something of them and they want to do the right thing. I just need to give them a space to do it in and respect that they'll make that decision. 

Jenny Woo [00:14:05] Yeah that makes sense. This leads me to flip that question a bit and ask for those kids who you know I hate to use your word. I sort of respect the opposite of maybe not them listening to have not had as much space at home right. How do you see their behavior is manifested when they come to your studio? What does that look like? 

Kate James [00:14:30] Yeah we have had a few students that it's been really challenging doing some behavior management. I had one little boy who asked to go to the bathroom last year and he painted the entire bathroom purple at the school. 

Jenny Woo [00:14:44] Oh wow. 

Kate James [00:14:45] Which we didn't find until the school day was over. That was interesting. 

Kate James [00:14:50] I would say that with those kids the times that we've managed to get them to refocus their attention and get real work done, really interesting creative work done, is when we again kind of really carefully like spend some one on one time with them listen to what they're interested in and then sort of steer them in a direction based on that. 

Kate James [00:15:15] So this little boy who painted the bathroom purple was really into weaponizing everything. He wanted to build swords, he wanted to build guns, he wanted to build things to hurt other children with them. While that was not acceptable behavior where it did lead us was to a conversation where I said maybe what can we do that would be a really cool launching thing. Then we can build a target and maybe we can find a way to launch things at the target. Oh interesting. We're not hurting other kids but we are a building kind of sort of a weapon not not quite a weapon but an interesting device that can launch a ball across a room. He was so into that project. It was like a switch flipped for him and he was really motivated. The next week he came with all these sketches for different kinds of weapons and again steered a little bit to the right of that and ended up doing some really interesting devices that he was building that were mechanical and made things move and I think fulfill those desires that he was having without that kind of disruptive behavior or the harming of others. 

Jenny Woo [00:16:26] Yeah. Yeah. It's such a good example especially for boys. You know there are times where my kids are doing this drawing and I'm like there's something wrong. Is there something wrong with me. 

Jenny Woo [00:16:39] He’s not drawing flowers like my other kids or the rainbows. 

Jenny Woo [00:16:43]  That's such a great example to showcase how you can channel into the inner deep intrinsic motivations of the fascination with something into a learning experience. I love that. So any parting words for us. 

Kate James [00:17:02] I would say that self motivation is definitely something that has to be cultivated and that it can be a really challenging thing for parents and for teachers to tap into and it can require a lot of like one on one attention and it can require the time to really listen. But even if that kind of listening and valuing of your child's individual personality can come in small doses it adds up. It's super important for developing their own intrinsic value of themselves too. 

Jenny Woo [00:17:39] Great. Thank you so much for being here, Kate!