Social Emotional Learning Topic: Taking Risks

TAKING RISKS: 5 Key Lesson Takeaways

  1. Don’t be afraid of taking risks! Fear should not be the answer. Respond positively. Some risks, ones that are manageable and controlled, are worth taking.

  2. Taking risks can teach kids valuable lessons. They learn to be in tune with their bodies, to assess situations critically and build confidence.

  3. It is important to consider and understand everyone’s perspectives. Some parents or kids are more fearful than others. Finding that balance of being more open-minded and still being able to control and protect ourselves is key.

  4. Sometimes, we have to let our kids fail to learn how to succeed! We can’t know how to do something without trying at least.

  5. Be proactive and not reactive.

Children’s Book Recommendations:

“Boy Raindrop is afraid to let go of his cloud and drop to the ground. He doesn't want to take a risk, he doesn't like change, and he is happy with his comfortable life. His father encourages him to jump out of his comfort zone and see what he is missing. Don't Be Afraid To Drop is a book for anyone who is at a transitional point in their life. From the beginning kindergartner, to an adult who is facing retirement, and everyone in between, this creative analogy provides all who read it with a positive perspective on change, taking risks, and giving back.”

“Following in the footsteps of Dr. Wayne Dyer’ first children’ book, the bestseller Incredible You! this work goes even further toward expressing Wayne’ positive message for children. In Unstoppable Me! Dr. Dyer teaches children how to hold on to the no-limit thinking he believes they were born with, rather than just trying to " in." In doing so, they can learn to truly enjoy life and become unstoppable as they strive to attain their dreams. The 10 important lessons in this book include the value of taking risks, dealing with stress and anxiety, and learning to enjoy each moment.”

“Jabari is definitely ready to jump off the diving board. He’s finished his swimming lessons and passed his swim test, and he’s a great jumper, so he’s not scared at all. “Looks easy,” says Jabari, watching the other kids take their turns. But when his dad squeezes his hand, Jabari squeezes back. He needs to figure out what kind of special jump to do anyway, and he should probably do some stretches before climbing up onto the diving board. In a sweetly appealing tale of overcoming your fears, Gaia Cornwall captures a moment between a patient and encouraging father and a determined little boy you can’t help but root for.”

Book Recommendations for Parents:

“In Free to Learn, developmental psychologist Peter Gray argues that our children, if free to pursue their own interests through play, will not only learn all they need to know, but will do so with energy and passion. To foster children who will thrive in today’s constantly changing world, we must entrust them to steer their own learning and development. Drawing on evidence from anthropology, psychology, and history, Gray demonstrates that free play is the primary means by which children learn to control their lives, solve problems, get along with peers, and become emotionally resilient.” 

“This book offers strategies to help kids from 18 months to 18 years build seven crucial “Cs” - competence, confidence, connection, character, contribution, coping, and control -so they can bounce back from challenges and excel in life. The book describes how to raise authentically successful children who will be happy, hardworking, compassionate, creative, and innovative. Dr. Ginsburg reminds parents that our goal is to think in the present and prepare for the future, to remember that our real goal is to raise children to be successful 35-year-olds. It’s about more than immediate smiles or even good grades; it’s about raising kids to be emotionally and socially intelligent, to be able to recover from disappointment and forge ahead throughout their lives.”

“William Stixrud and Ned Johnson focus on the ways that children today are being denied a sense of controlling their own lives—doing what they find meaningful, and succeeding or failing on their own. Screen time, the authors say, is part of the problem, but so are well-meaning parents and schools, who are unwittingly taking from children the opportunities they need to grow stronger, more confident and more themselves. Changes in our culture in the last 10 or 15 years appear to have contributed to an even sharper decline in a sense of control. For one, kids play much less than they did even a decade ago, as their time is taken up by more school hours, more scheduled activities and more screen time than ever before. Researcher Peter Gray was one of the first to connect fewer opportunities to play to a decline in a sense of control.”

Transcript for Podcast Lesson on Taking Risks with Amelia

Jenny Woo: Welcome to 52 Essential Conversations. I'm Jenny Woo and we're sitting next to Amelia Eppel and today we're talking about taking risks. Amelia, as a UK-trained, early-childhood teacher and recent graduate from the Human Development and Psychology Program at the Harvard Graduate School of Education. As a teacher, Amelia delights in creating learning environments, where kids are purposeful and independent, both indoors and outdoors. With also 10 years of experience as a nanny for babies from two months and two teenagers of 14, Amelia has had the opportunity to think about what makes a healthy and happy child at home, as well as in the classroom. Welcome, Amelia.

Jenny Woo: Tell us, what is taking risk means to you?

Amelia Eppel: Well, I'm thinking about taking risks in terms of physical risks as well as mental risks: being brave, trying new things.

Jenny Woo: Tell me more about physical risks.

Amelia Eppel:  The way that I think about it is something that you want to do, but you maybe don't feel you have the capacity to do it. So it might be something easy, like walking along the street is not a risk until you have something you need to climb or you have something you need to jump over or something that might be a little bit out of the ordinary. So it's kind of those bumps, those different things that you might encounter.

Jenny Woo: Yeah. Oh, that sounds so much fun. It actually reminds me of this adventure playground that I take my children to where it's not a playground in the traditional sense, but it's honestly, it's just nature. It's everywhere. So I know you've worked a lot in terms of outdoor education. What do you do?

Amelia Eppel: So I've worked in an indoor and outdoor kindergarten and preschool and we had three different gardens. One of them was very wild. One of them had a big tree in it and they'd created a treehouse as part of it, which the children could climb on. They could climb the tree and then there was a big area for riding bikes and scooters and different kinds of vehicles. That kindergarten also had a big outside, public space next to it. So, we did a lot of adventuring there, bear hunts through the bushes, climbing boulders, and sliding down the mud hill, those sorts of things.

Jenny Woo: Lots of laundries.

Amelia Eppel: Yes.

Jenny Woo: Yeah,  haha I love it!

Jenny Woo: So, you know, as a parent, I'm so curious because you must get a lot of different children, different personalities, which sort of will inform how they approach risks and what they perceive as risks as well as their home environment in terms of what is emphasized and what isn't. So tell me, a little bit more about those differences that you see in children when they first come to school.

Amelia Eppel: Yeah, that's a really big one, actually. When they first arrive, you get so many different kinds of perspectives on what it feels like to do the things that we do every day. Some kids are really, really nervous. They hang back or they want to hold your hand or climb up on you, be carried down things, and some of them will throw themselves headfirst at it. So, that's really interesting and it's not always clear why those children are behaving that way. Sometimes, the parents may say, “Oh, we don't want what he's wearing to get dirty.” So, you have to wear the rain boots and the water-proofs, which is useful anyway and important, if it's wet, but, you can tell maybe that they are quite protected at home or they need to be kept clean.

Amelia Eppel: But some kids will be nervous. Parents might not be nervous about them getting dirty particularly and they are nervous and other kids just have no fear. I think it’s just personality sometimes.

Amelia Eppel: But there are definitely things that parents do or don't do or can do that affects how much they are interested in exploring.

Jenny Woo: So, tell us some examples of parents which, in your case as a teacher, how you encourage responsible risk-taking.

Amelia Eppel: Yeah. So there are a few things that you can do really, that we used a lot, which is working with children, doing it with them. A lot of role modeling of, “This is fun and it's exciting” and if you do it alongside them, they're more likely to try it. And so, that's a really big one, just showing kids the way. It's really about your actions but also, about your words and this is something, which I think, as a society, we find quite hard. And it's like the automatic way that you speak to kids can be a problem. And even, you know, knowing these things, I find it difficult sometimes myself. But I'm not saying, “Oh, be careful!” expressing that fear that they might not be in control, but instead, there are ways that you can communicate to them that you want them to be careful but in a more positive way, that gets them to notice their surroundings or notice their body or what they might need to do to keep safe.

Amelia Eppel: So things like saying, “Have you noticed where you need to put your foot to climb that tree?” or “Why don't you try using your hands to balance?” Or “Have you thought you might make sure you're wearing wellies?”  -we call them wellies, rain boots and things like that- so that they develop a sense of kind of autonomy over what they need to do to keep themselves safe and able to learn at the same time.

Jenny Woo: I really like the language that you use and it's very productive and it's kind of like planning a base.

Jenny Woo: “Have you planned your rules? Have you thought about this? Have you done that?” instead of, “Oh no, Be careful!” or, “Watch out!”

Jenny Woo: So it's actually, interestingly, more proactive than reactive.

Amelia Eppel: Exactly. It's really about encouraging decision-making and problem-solving rather than creating fear. Because if you're communicating fear, I think it does different things to different people but for some children, it will make them fearful and for some children, it might make them want to do it even more and maybe in a more dangerous way, you can say they want to prove something. You know, different kids react differently to that.

Jenny Woo: Yeah. So with that, let's use your second one as the example, where this also ties into impulse-control.

Jenny Woo: And I also reminded me I believe it's Peter Gray’s book on play. He mentioned something about the thrill of it.

Jenny Woo: That thrill like not knowing if you could really do it but, having enough self-confidence to proceed with it and then afterward realizing, “Oh my goodness, I could do this!” and that's a great confidence booster. But of course, as parents, we're kind of holding our breath going, “Oh my god, what are we going to do? Is that a trip to the E.R.?

Amelia Eppel: Yeah, haha!

Jenny Woo: So balancing the two, specifically for children, balancing and post-control, doing it for skill-building, for curiosity, for the love of it, maybe thrill. How do you see the thrill and how do you see impulse control in that?

Amelia Eppel: Yeah, that's a really interesting question because it is such a fine line, I think.

Amelia Eppel: I think it's something that we have to constantly navigate when we’re with children, kind of trying to step back and take a second and assess the danger, the risk. I'm wondering, “What is the worst that could happen?” and, “Is it likely that they are going to break their leg?” Constantly just checking in with ourselves, Is it fear? because, we want to control it or we're not sure of what they are doing or that’s not what we want them to be doing, which is a different thing, too. That is a dangerous thing to be doing. Impulse-control and children, this is something that's come out of research on nature. Nature-based schooling and outdoor learning are really beneficial for impulse-control because they learn how to navigate their bodies, the boundaries of what their bodies can do, and regulate themselves through that amount of physical activity.

Amelia Eppel: As much as anything else.

Amelia Eppel: So I think it is a fine line of the threat there is, thrill in it, but that is part of what helps to regulate what is positive and what is dangerous. You can imagine, if you never had a chance to try anything that was exciting, you wouldn't know what was positive excitement or what wasn't, so finding the boundaries of what is scary and what is dangerous.

Jenny Woo: It's so awesome, but also so frustrating at the same time that this definition is so relative and it entirely changes developmentally. And it is rewarding, as a child, to approach a monkey-bar that, maybe she or he was really afraid of, and being able to make it from one end to the other versus two years ago. That's a great comparison of knowing where you are.

Jenny Woo: I can't help but ask. You've had a great long experience working as a nanny and you must really see behind-the-scenes working with different families. So don’t want to air out too much dirty laundry but…give us some insights into taking risks from an adult standpoint, in the sense of parents. How? What are some of the ways you’ve seen how parents enable, allow, or encourage children or NOT to take risks that have worked or not worked so well?

Amelia Eppel: Yeah. Gosh, so many.

Amelia Eppel: Well at the moment, I'm looking after a baby, who is 10 months now, so he's just started crawling a month or two ago. Now, he's got very fast and he's got very good at pulling up on things. One of the things that he keeps wanting to pull up on our chairs and some of the chairs are not strong enough to take his weight if he pulls up on it.  At first, I wasn't sure what the best tactic was because if you let him pull up on it and then it falls over on him, that's dangerous.

Amelia Eppel: He will hurt himself. Something that is not helpful is to hold the chair or sit on the chair so that he doesn't know that it could fall on him. So I've been trying to balance kind of lightly holding the chair so it doesn't actually fall on him, but so that he feels that it's not strong enough and then he stopped doing it because he knows that that's not gonna work, but not kind of watching from the other side of the room thinking, well, that's not gonna work.

Jenny Woo: Right.

Amelia Eppel: It's going to fall on him. But at the same time, not stepping in before he has a chance to find out that that's not something he can do because otherwise, he won't learn that some things aren't strong enough. Some things are bobbly. Some things are good for climbing on. Some things aren't. So.

Amelia Eppel: Kind of navigating that.

Jenny Woo: That is really interesting because, you know, in Westernized society or even specifically in the US, there's a whole lot of regulations, especially around baby products; a product that touches the whole child-development part. You get lawsuits and you can't make a product anymore because of these accidents, you know? And yes, it's a good thing but then it also makes me personally wonder, How much of that is too overprotective? or like user-error in a sense. So that's an interesting point. I'm going to go back to my question again, working with different families. I'm sure your entry point, when you get into that family to help with the child or children are at different ages and so some are more settled in terms of their routines and expectations and how they operate as a family. As someone who advocates for risk-taking responsibility, especially outdoors, how do you manage these expectations but still challenge them in such a way, that they are able to take more risk? And I say that because maybe in a household with two to a couple. One might be in the school, and you just let them play with them, figure it out. The other one may be more conservative. So how do you manage those dynamics?

Amelia Eppel: Yeah, that's a great question. I definitely get a variety of standpoints on this. It's kind of something that I've always felt is best to do slowly and in the same way that you might want kids to take risks, kind of manageable risk. And I might take the risk of one day, you know, saying, oh, let's go out and play, even though it's raining. And some families, they just don't take them out when it's raining. Know, which is, you know, that's a choice. That's fine. But for me, there’s a lot of learning to be had in the rain. I make sure that I'm taking those boxes of what they need for their kids, so making sure that they're really well dressed, that I have everything they might need, if that's something that they're worried about, you know, making sure we have snacks, making sure we have a phone and making sure I told them exactly when we were going to be back and having contingency plans.

Amelia Eppel:  So, those things are covered. And then pushing it a little bit-

Amelia Eppel:  -letting them play in the rain or play in the mud, but knowing that as soon as we got home, they can change and put on clean clothes and they're not gonna get hypothermia.

Jenny Woo: Haha!

Amelia Eppel: Yeah, it's about having the right amount of things to feel safe and protected. And usually, parents are surprised by how much their kids enjoy it and how it's not that big an issue. And it usually ends up like, “Oh wow, they had such a good time!” and they trust in it. But it's all about building up trust, like I'm not gonna take them down a cliff or they, you know, without climbing gear on if they're going climbing.

Amelia Eppel: But it’s making sure you have all of your things, your bases covered in terms of safety and whatever the parents might be concerned about.

Jenny Woo: Yeah, I love that.

Jenny Woo: Not giving up, really understanding, what everybody, ALL parties need in this case. And so, there is hope for other couples where maybe one is a little bit more adventurous than the other or maybe the in-laws are more of a hovering type.

Amelia Eppel: Yes.

Jenny Woo: To build that trust.

Amelia Eppel: Exactly.

Jenny Woo: And with that said, thank you so much for being here, Emily.

Amelia Eppel: Thank you, it was such a pleasure.

Jenny Woo: Thank you, for tuning into 52 Essential Conversations.

Social Emotional Learning Topic: Self-Motivation

SELF-MOTIVATION: 5 Key Lesson Takeaways

  1. Self-motivation consists of finding the things that interest you and motivate you to want to work towards the ultimate goal.

  2. Take the time to learn about your child/student’s interests so that you can incorporate these things into their education. It will help them learn the things they aren’t interested in or struggle with if it is related to something they are passionate about. 

  3. Teach them how to use technology in a positive way (ex: look up answers to things they are curious about). Parents/Adults can be role models in this sense by looking up answers to questions their children have.

  4. It is important to give your children space in which they can make their own decisions while also setting boundaries. Children feel respected when you allow them to make their own decisions because they feel a sense of responsibility and trust.

  5. Self-motivation takes a lot of practice for parents, teachers, and children, but listening and valuing your child’s voice can help them develop their values and self-confidence.

Book Recommendations:

This is the story of a persistent problem and the child who isn't so sure what to make of it. The longer the problem is avoided, the bigger it seems to get. But when the child finally musters up the courage to face it, the problem turns out to be something quite different than it appeared.

A powerful story for young girls. This book follows Grace, who decides she wants to be the first female president, and to do so, she’ll need hard work, courage and independent thought.

Teaches the valuable lesson that there’s no one “right way” to do things — it’s ok to be creative and different!

A little girl and her fury friend set out on a mission to make something magnificent but meet discouraging roadblocks on their way. Children can relate with the frustrated little girl and learn from her canine companion about perspective.

Transcript for Podcast Lesson on Self-Motivation with Kate

Jenny Woo [00:00:50] We are here sitting next to Kate James to talk about self-motivation. Kate is an educator and designer who runs the preview program at the new view innovation school in Cambridge Massachusetts. There she engages five to eight-year-olds and design studios where they learn to think through problems, make things, and talk about their work. Kate recently completed a master’s degree at the Harvard Graduate School of Education with a focus on arts and education. She also has a Masters of Science and visual studies from M.I.T. and worked for many years as a design researcher and product designer. 

Jenny Woo [00:01:35] Welcome Kate. Thank you so much for having me. So tell us what does self-motivation mean to you?

Kate James [00:01:43] I was thinking about what self-motivation is and I was actually thinking of it in reference to just finishing this program at Harvard. I had this impulse to go check my grades and I was wondering because that's actually counter to what I believe in. I don't really think that grades are a great register of people's talents or skills but I had this feeling like I needed to find out what these professors thought of my work. I think in terms of what self-motivation is it's the lack of needing to do that. It's when you actually don't need to go check your grades because you've gotten feedback from yourself and others that comes without the carrot and stick model that comes without either being rewarded with the A or punished with the C or things outside of grades. The feedback that comes from the world in a more organic way allows you to find things within yourself that make you want to keep working and keep moving towards goals. 

Jenny Woo [00:02:45] Kate you're also a mother of three and so you know the realities of parenting are it's rather hard when we're not dangling the carrots and the rewards. So tell us what are some of the things that have worked for you in terms of planting the seeds in our children and valuing those things within themselves and finding those values and validating them. 

Kate James [00:03:09] So I actually find that self-motivation is a skill that needs to be almost practiced. So to begin I think with my own children and also with the students that I teach, I find that the first step is like really listening to what the child values to really hear what they care about and use those stakes that they have as a way into work. Using what they care about and what they love to get them started on a road towards something. Then if they practice that skill of working towards a goal in the area of something they love then they get used to the process of working towards goals and then they can kind of deploy that in areas where maybe they're less naturally interested but they kind of get used to the skill of working towards something and being persistent and finding ways around problems. That makes sense. 

Jenny Woo [00:04:06] So having that self-discipline and seeing the benefits of sticking to a goal. Give me an example. You've done a lot of work in maker space area design studios. What if for example, my child is so into that stuff, making things, but I also want to motivate him. Maybe at math, at school and I hate to bring up the grades right. Also that as well. 

Jenny Woo [00:04:32]  What can I do to channel his passion for making things and relating that to academics.  

Kates James [00:04:41] You start in a space where somebody is really passionate. 

Kate James [00:04:46] I know my son is really passionate about building things and building spaces and building things out of Legos and that kind of thing. So we actually started to do some 3D modeling on the computer and then you kind of run into math. It's there and you can't avoid it. You get to a point where you're like well I need to figure out the proportions of this hamster that I'm trying to 3D print so I need the head to be this big and I need the body to be this big. You kind of just bump up against it. I think if it's in an area where kids are interested and passionate then they tend not to see it as a stopping point where they might in a school situation. I think the problem that we run into at school is when things start to show up as rote worksheets and problems that don't relate to their real life or their real interests. It's a tough gap to bridge. But it's an important one to bridge. If we can kind of find the threads that could maybe join these things up like the things that they care about and the things that they have to understand, then that's where we really need to start weaving things together. 

Jenny Woo [00:05:57] Tell me more about the thread right. So I can’t help but feeling overwhelmed at times. Right. There's only so much time I have during the day for us to have that quality time with my children. But then on top we have school homework, activities, and readings and how do I bridge that thread without killing myself. 

Kate James [00:06:18] It's a tough question and I think as mothers we certainly always feel kind of a pull. Where is the proportion of my time being spent and should I be reallocating it and questioning that all the time it comes back to listening. It comes back to where you really need to have just a few moments here and there where you pause and really listen to what your kid is saying. 

Kate James [00:06:42] I think as a society in general it's really easy for us to kind of bowl over that and be like get your homework done, get to your activity, finish your sports practice, do all the things on your list but then the child's voice is often really lost in that and where you can start to build threads into more academic topics is when you're really listening to what the child cares about how they feel about math for example. 

Kate James [00:07:09] Kids can have really complicated relationships with math and they can feel self motivation to do math if they are doing it in a way that resonates with them and that is interesting to them. I know my son the way that he was doing addition was just it seemed completely quirky and fascinating to me that if he was doing 19 plus 13 he would take the heat. He felt more comfortable with eights and twos. So he would take a one off the 19 and it would take a one off of the 13 and then he could add 18 and twelve and get thirty and then he would ask his two straggler friends to come back and make the thirty two. That really unique kind of way that he was doing math, once we were working in his method he was way more interested in doing his math homework. 

Jenny Woo [00:08:02] That's such a good point. You know it's almost like it is listening but it's also being open, being open minded to what they like and how they like it and there are unique ways. That is so incredibly important to truly help us understand who our children are so that we can help them to get to where they like to be. You know actually your example reminded me of this one morning. You're right. It doesn't take a lot of time just to have that little amount of time that quality that you can get into. This other day in the morning we were eating mini pancakes because you know I just don't have time to make pancakes pancakes from scratch. 

Jenny Woo [00:08:47] So I buy the overpriced mini pancakes. 

Jenny Woo [00:08:50] And interestingly it was before school and we had about five different mini pancakes and someone, one of my three children just started slicing them into halves a lightbulb just came up I was like Oh this is fraction right. 

Jenny Woo [00:08:50] And interestingly it was before school and we had about five different mini pancakes and someone, one of my three children just started slicing them into halves a lightbulb just came up I was like Oh this is fraction right. 

Jenny Woo [00:09:06] Yeah. So we did pancake fractions.

Kate James [00:09:15] Ben actually wrote on his homework sheet it says like what did you study and how did you practice it. He actually wrote pancake fractions. 

Jenny Woo [00:09:22] I love it. Right. 

Jenny Woo [00:09:24] It's those little things and it's so interesting because we started dividing it into fourths and 16th’s and all that stuff. I started linking it to the concepts of piano notes. So you have the whole no quarter no half no 16 note. Then what we did with that was we started clapping with how the pancakes were structured and to like a song. So needless to say the pancakes were gross by the end of it, did not eat it, but that was a learning self-motivated learning experience. 

Kate James [00:09:56] That's beautiful. And I love the exploratory nature of it because you can kind of start like how do pancakes relate to math and then how does math relate to music and then it just all kind of links up in a much more holistic way. The kids don't even realize that they're learning. It's just kind of happening and it's interesting and it peaks even more curiosity I think and it starts to make them see connections between things that they might not see otherwise. 

Jenny Woo [00:10:23] Yeah yeah. I like how you say it piques curiosity. I have another small example and I love your advice on this one. My five-year-old started using the word “I wonder'' and the first time I heard that I paused and I was like wow that is so beautiful. But it was really to basically ask after you know going to number two. He said I wonder where do my poos go. I was like oh okay. 

Jenny Woo [00:10:52] We should look that up or something. But then we ran out of time and you know something else came up like what can we do in moments of wonderment like that. 

Kate James [00:11:08] I think anybody with a five-year-old has probably been asked that question. 

Kate James [00:11:11] Yeah these little moments of curiosity I wonder how you can kind of grasp them and not let them just drift by and be forgotten. I almost wonder if we could have a curiosity log or something. That's a good idea. That keeps track of all the things that they're curious about because I know it feels like rapid fire questions a lot of times especially my three children are eight, six, and three. They're asking me tons of questions all the time and they're at different levels so they're all different levels of questions. It can often feel like a firing squad. This is maybe where technology is so amazing like 20 years ago we would have had to stop and really do something like deep research about plumbing systems and answer that question. Now we can ask Siri about plumbing on the way to school which is amazing. Maybe using technology in that way is a really fruitful way to kind of get at kids core questions really quickly and then move on with your day. I don't know if we'll ever be able to keep up with our kids' questions and curiosities but I think that effort that we put in  to answer their questions is noted by them. 

Kate James [00:12:25] And I think it's valuable. It's one way that we show them that we love them and value them as individuals. 

Jenny Woo [00:12:32] Yeah that's true. I can see that as they get older and just being in this habit of looking it up then they are in power themselves to look it up. Which is great. 

Jenny Woo [00:12:43] So just some parting questions so how. Tell me some tips. 

Jenny Woo [00:12:47]  How do you motivate your kids at home to do the stuff that they don't want to do. 

Kate James [00:12:54] Oh yeah so this is always a topic in development. I have not been above bribing my children to do their homework. 

Kate James [00:13:05] I'm not infallible but what I've actually found to be the most effective way of getting my kids to be self-motivated to do things is actually counter-intuitive. It's actually to give them space. 

Kate James [00:13:20]  While my husband, for example, has a tendency to want to say put on your pajamas, put on your pajamas, put on your pajamas seventy-five thousand times until my child will put on his pajamas. I actually find that if I just say like we're going to go to bed at 9 o'clock and that's when the lights get dimmed and if you aren't wearing your pajamas I guess you're sleeping in your clothes. My children will get their pajamas on every time before that happens because I've respected them enough to give them credit for making a decision. Yeah. I've expected something of them and they want to do the right thing. I just need to give them a space to do it in and respect that they'll make that decision. 

Jenny Woo [00:14:05] Yeah that makes sense. This leads me to flip that question a bit and ask for those kids who you know I hate to use your word. I sort of respect the opposite of maybe not them listening to have not had as much space at home right. How do you see their behavior is manifested when they come to your studio? What does that look like? 

Kate James [00:14:30] Yeah we have had a few students that it's been really challenging doing some behavior management. I had one little boy who asked to go to the bathroom last year and he painted the entire bathroom purple at the school. 

Jenny Woo [00:14:44] Oh wow. 

Kate James [00:14:45] Which we didn't find until the school day was over. That was interesting. 

Kate James [00:14:50] I would say that with those kids the times that we've managed to get them to refocus their attention and get real work done, really interesting creative work done, is when we again kind of really carefully like spend some one on one time with them listen to what they're interested in and then sort of steer them in a direction based on that. 

Kate James [00:15:15] So this little boy who painted the bathroom purple was really into weaponizing everything. He wanted to build swords, he wanted to build guns, he wanted to build things to hurt other children with them. While that was not acceptable behavior where it did lead us was to a conversation where I said maybe what can we do that would be a really cool launching thing. Then we can build a target and maybe we can find a way to launch things at the target. Oh interesting. We're not hurting other kids but we are a building kind of sort of a weapon not not quite a weapon but an interesting device that can launch a ball across a room. He was so into that project. It was like a switch flipped for him and he was really motivated. The next week he came with all these sketches for different kinds of weapons and again steered a little bit to the right of that and ended up doing some really interesting devices that he was building that were mechanical and made things move and I think fulfill those desires that he was having without that kind of disruptive behavior or the harming of others. 

Jenny Woo [00:16:26] Yeah. Yeah. It's such a good example especially for boys. You know there are times where my kids are doing this drawing and I'm like there's something wrong. Is there something wrong with me. 

Jenny Woo [00:16:39] He’s not drawing flowers like my other kids or the rainbows. 

Jenny Woo [00:16:43]  That's such a great example to showcase how you can channel into the inner deep intrinsic motivations of the fascination with something into a learning experience. I love that. So any parting words for us. 

Kate James [00:17:02] I would say that self motivation is definitely something that has to be cultivated and that it can be a really challenging thing for parents and for teachers to tap into and it can require a lot of like one on one attention and it can require the time to really listen. But even if that kind of listening and valuing of your child's individual personality can come in small doses it adds up. It's super important for developing their own intrinsic value of themselves too. 

Jenny Woo [00:17:39] Great. Thank you so much for being here, Kate!

Social Emotional Learning Topic: Creativity

Transcript for Podcast Lesson on Creativity with Chelsea

Jenny Woo [00:00:07] Hello everyone, I'm Jenny and you're listening to 52 Essential Conversations. Today we have Chelsea Myers sitting with us to talk about creativity. Chelsea plays in the intersection between teaching and neuroscience through her time spent in the classrooms and at the research lab. She has taught in project-based learning school environments from 5th all the way to 12th grade on both the West and East Coasts. While working for the Laboratory for Educational Neuroscience at the University of California San Francisco, Chelsea was a Research Fellow for the Center for Childhood Creativity, where she helped to translate neuroscience research to usable knowledge for parents and teachers. Welcome, Chelsea.

Chelsea Myers [00:00:59] Hi Jenny. Thanks so much for having me.

Jenny Woo [00:01:02] Tell us what is creativity is to you and why is it important.

 Chelsea Myers [00:01:08] It's so interesting from both my teaching background and my research background to answer that question. From a researching standpoint, a creative idea tends to be assessed based on whether it's both original and useful. As a teacher, I tend to think of inventiveness, spontaneity, and imagination. Really though, the non-researcher in me tends to feel that putting a strict definition around creativity is against its very nature. Parents like you, Jenny, of young children have an opportunity to see amazing creativity each day in your children, which stems so much from being so curious about everything around them. Children, when given the right environment can do tremendous things, come up with amazingly inventive worlds, solutions, and ways of navigating their surroundings. And it is through constraints, expectations, social norms, and responsibilities that we start to see that decline in creativity as kids get older and turn to adults. Something called the Fourth Grade Slump has been identified by researchers as a time around nine to ten years old where we really see a decline in creative thinking. Despite this decline, creative thinking is something that we are seeing become more and more important in our adulthood and for our economy. When so many of our jobs are automated now, top employers are looking for innovation and innovation comes from people who think creatively. Paul Tough, an amazing journalist that writes a lot about education talks about how we no longer need just problem solvers but problem finders as well. I have always loved that and I think it is so much related to how I approach creativity with my students.

Jenny Woo [00:02:46] Let's break this down. Tell us what you've done at school or even tips for parents in fostering the type of right environment where we can encourage problem finders.

Chelsea Myers [00:03:00] Great question. So much of creativity for children is about the imagination: coming up with new worlds and imaginary friends. It is probably really basic to say this, but embracing the power of play is one thing a parent can do. So often, kids are inundated with schedules so early on in their lives, and that leaves little room for imaginative play. Protect and prioritize that time for your kids. I think also, research shows us that it is important for us not as adults to put constraints on their curiosity, so using open-ended language as your child explores novel things, such as "I wonder what this is for?" "what do you think?" for example. A language that is encouraging and not dismissive of ideas. As an educator, we often call this "yes, and" rather than using that dreaded "but" phrased. As Carol Dweck promotes, using growth mindset language praising effort rather than results is a great way to foster creativity. Facilitating brainstorming can really help where kids are generating a lot of ideas and organically seeing how some ideas lead to others and asking questions that help kids to see patterns and relationships in the world. Being in nature can especially help facilitate that part too. And just overall, allowing your kids to fail a little bit and helping them through frustrations when they are stuck can be really helpful. Teaching strategies that we often use on our own as adults, like taking a break from something and coming back for example. Movement, as well, can be super important for those aha moments, and movement for creative expression is really great.

Chelsea Myers [00:04:40] Some really important research in psychology and neuroscience recognizes a phenomenon called the "Undermining Effect," which basically is that when something is already intrinsically rewarding--they just like doing something. It is given an extrinsic reward, a treat, or something of that sort, it actually undermines the innate desire and enjoyment of that activity. I think recognizing that is really important for parents and educators. Can we identify and help kids to see when they have done something for pure enjoyment, not for any outside rewards? I think especially as kids get older and approach the slump that we talked about, putting effort into creating environments for creativity can be important. I'm amazed during my time as an educator at how cardboard, pipe cleaners, and other recyclables turn into poly elevators and zip lines. Allowing for these materials and a space to get messy can be super important. When parents are able, providing new experiences such as museums, nature walks, cultural festivals, art performances can be really enriching in creativity provoking.

Jenny Woo [00:05:49] I love how you know these are great tangible examples of how to create that environment where they can make mistakes, fail, and explore that process. And it's so funny that you said "yes, and" versus the "but." It's like every time I lay out a bunch of materials for my kids to play, it's always "oh this is great, so amazing what you're doing" but then in my head, I'm like "oh it's so messy, what am I going to do!" So that's one thing, the balance of just the fact that you do need to clean it up and this mess is there and real. Then also I'm feeling the tension of when do you step in as a parent to use some creativity moments as a teachable moment, say "how about this or do it this way." It's such a balance between the two. Any tips for us in handling messiness and also the tension of letting go, leaving them alone vs. going in and teaching them.

Chelsea Myers [00:07:01] Yeah, that's such a challenging question. I do think that if you are facilitating your children in a way that again uses that open language rather than "you should do it this way," providing a lot of different options of how things can be approached and strategies. I truly believe that when you can, to try to let your children come to those moments on their own and it's really interesting because I think as parents and I know my own parents did this as well is that they're afraid to watch us fail. And really those are some of the most influential learning experiences in our lives and they're especially fruitful when they're in a supportive environment around parents that are there to comfort them or direct them or support them in that failure and all the emotions that come with that. Embracing that and the power you have as a parent to understand the comfort that you can provide in those struggle moments that lead to great learning and productive futures for your children.

Jenny Woo [00:08:17] Yeah. That's a great point. And it actually reminded me of embracing failures within ourselves as parents. I think a lot of the times we do feel pressure and that you know we need to get this teachable moment right. We need to capitalize on this learning experience. We got to do it now versus just modeling the fact that we don't know the right answers and we're looking for it together and embracing that. I think for me as a former executive coach, I've worked with a lot of adults who have a fear of failure. And ironically, those are the things that are holding them back from getting to the next level as you mentioned, the 21st-century skills and jobs.

Jenny Woo [00:09:03] So any tips or resources that you have for us as parents?

Chelsea Myers [00:09:09] A lot of my interest in this topic stemmed from my work with an amazing center out of Sausalito, California right outside of San Francisco called the Center for Childhood Creativity. While I was working at an educational research lab in the area they asked me to come on board to help them to translate some of the newer neuroscience of creativity research into some usable digestible knowledge. Their website has an amazing set of resources on the subject, including the paper that I worked on called Inspiring a Generation to Create, Critical Components of Creativity in Children. That paper includes a really interesting overview of creativity and also which I absolutely love, provides games and strategies that parents and educators can use to help foster creativity, some of which definitely has some parallels to what we talked about today.

Jenny Woo [00:09:58] Well thank you so much for your time, Chelsea. And thank you for tuning in to 52 Essential Conversation.